Tuesday, August 09, 2005
Is the Trading Deadline Irrelevant?
I'm confused. How do the Sox & Cubs trade through a "waiver transaction"? Isn't this kindof dangerous? Don't other clubs get the chance to mess things up? Doesn't this leave clubs in the vulnerable position of just hoping the other club will follow through with their word? Are these cash consideration transfers legal? Forgive my ignorance, people.
# posted by Rebecca @ 2:31 PM 
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Well, anyone could have gone after Remlinger, but once we've got to him, I don't think another team can just leap in there and try to claim him, if that's what you mean. And all trades leave clubs in the position of hoping the other one will follow through with their word... witness what we did to the poor Rockies.
Here's how this works (at least to my understanding). The July 31st deadline is the non-waiver deadline. Remember a couple offseasons ago when the Sox put Manny on what are called 'irrevocable' waivers, which meant that any tem could grab him (according to waiver order) and the Sox couldn't do anything about it, even if it was the Yanks? The 'irrevocable' is the key term. After July 31st, any player that is traded must pass through waivers, but these are revocable waivers - most teams put a large number of players on waivers, a max of 7 per day, after the deadline, in the hopes that they pass through (that is, that no team puts a claim on them). Once that happens, a team can trade the player involved. If another team does put in a claim, the waiver is revocable, and the player can be taken off waivers. You only hear about this happening when a player is traded off them.
This turns out not to matter for Remlinger, thugh, who was DFA'd. Given that, I'm pretty sure that he would not need to go through waivers to be traded.
Did this make any sense?
This turns out not to matter for Remlinger, thugh, who was DFA'd. Given that, I'm pretty sure that he would not need to go through waivers to be traded.
Did this make any sense?
# posted by 
: 3:21 PM
: 3:21 PM
it helps, but I'm still a little confused. we're allowed to trade, as long as the players are DFA'd?
The DFA on Remlinger is a concern for the Cubs more than anyone else. He still had to clear waivers before a trade could be worked out - but it put the Cubs under the gun of only having 10 days to make the deal or be forced to release him.
Trying to take Andrew's analysis one-step further.
The non-waiver trade deadline is the last day when Andrew and I could make a deal without anyone else having a say in whether this deal went down or not.
After July 31, I would have to put a player on the waiver wire to see if he would fall to the team that wants to make a deal. If he does and that team makes a claim on him and he's traded.
But say Rebecca is in third-place and this player would help her and you don't want Andrew to get him, then you put a claim in on him. Now you and I try to work out a deal and if nothing comes about then I pull back the waiver claim and we all go on our merry way.
Usually very few players actually get dealt through waivers because the players that would help a team are blocked or picked-up by someone else. The waiver order goes from worst record in league to best record in league then worst record in other league to best record in other league. So basically every other team passed on a chance to grab Remlinger before the BoSox grabbed him.
Guys that are traded this way are very bit pieces or overpaid guys that others wouldn't want to take the chance on for the salary. Ken Griffey Jr. is a name that is being bantered ab out as a possible waiver deal, a $10 million salary and a $4 hamstring makes him a gamble that teams like Cleveland are not going to change, but in New York that's a different story.
But for postseason moves, a player has to be on the team's 40-man roster by the end of August to be eligible for the postseason roster.
Hope that helps a little bit.
Trying to take Andrew's analysis one-step further.
The non-waiver trade deadline is the last day when Andrew and I could make a deal without anyone else having a say in whether this deal went down or not.
After July 31, I would have to put a player on the waiver wire to see if he would fall to the team that wants to make a deal. If he does and that team makes a claim on him and he's traded.
But say Rebecca is in third-place and this player would help her and you don't want Andrew to get him, then you put a claim in on him. Now you and I try to work out a deal and if nothing comes about then I pull back the waiver claim and we all go on our merry way.
Usually very few players actually get dealt through waivers because the players that would help a team are blocked or picked-up by someone else. The waiver order goes from worst record in league to best record in league then worst record in other league to best record in other league. So basically every other team passed on a chance to grab Remlinger before the BoSox grabbed him.
Guys that are traded this way are very bit pieces or overpaid guys that others wouldn't want to take the chance on for the salary. Ken Griffey Jr. is a name that is being bantered ab out as a possible waiver deal, a $10 million salary and a $4 hamstring makes him a gamble that teams like Cleveland are not going to change, but in New York that's a different story.
But for postseason moves, a player has to be on the team's 40-man roster by the end of August to be eligible for the postseason roster.
Hope that helps a little bit.
Toby - right on.
Reb - the DFA ad the waiver deals are two separate things. DFA'ing Remlingermeans that, essentially, the Cubs are releasing him (yeah, he ould go to the minors, but in 99% of cases with veterans they refuse the assignment and aretherefore released). The Cbs have 10 days to trade him after that, and I don't believe that - at least from their side - dealing a guy who's been DFA'd requires putting him on waivers.
Teams put a ton of guys on waivers ever season; this doesn't meanthey release them or DFA them, it's justa process. It basically mens that they see who would be willing to take over the contracts, and if no one is - that is, if he passes through waver claims with no one claiming him - only then can he be dealt.
Toby, do you know how this woks with a DFA'd player? Does he still have to pass through the waiver syste, or can he simply be dealt, past the deadline?
Reb - the DFA ad the waiver deals are two separate things. DFA'ing Remlingermeans that, essentially, the Cubs are releasing him (yeah, he ould go to the minors, but in 99% of cases with veterans they refuse the assignment and aretherefore released). The Cbs have 10 days to trade him after that, and I don't believe that - at least from their side - dealing a guy who's been DFA'd requires putting him on waivers.
Teams put a ton of guys on waivers ever season; this doesn't meanthey release them or DFA them, it's justa process. It basically mens that they see who would be willing to take over the contracts, and if no one is - that is, if he passes through waver claims with no one claiming him - only then can he be dealt.
Toby, do you know how this woks with a DFA'd player? Does he still have to pass through the waiver syste, or can he simply be dealt, past the deadline?
# posted by : 4:55 PM
: 4:55 PM
oh, you were talking about typos here, Andrew? the ones on the other thread are much worse.
ok, guys. I think I've got it. It's pretty much how I thought, I just didn't know about the revocable waivers, therefore did not realize the trade could be completed safely.
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ok, guys. I think I've got it. It's pretty much how I thought, I just didn't know about the revocable waivers, therefore did not realize the trade could be completed safely.
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